Lithuanian Armed Forces
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Jon Platakis It appears that the Lithuanian fighting men have been imbued with the same valor as our knights of old.


Timotiejus Sevelis let it NEVER happen again!!! Poland in 1919-20, Bolsheviks in WW1!!! Stalin's goons in 1940 & 1944-1991. The German NAZIS!


Bartłomiej Kolubiński T. Sevelis@Surely, the historical conflict (1920+) over Vilnius between Poland and Lithuania should be broadly discussed on the good faith basis between our two nations – today’s allies and friends. Nevertheless, linking together in the same sentence: Poland with Nazis and Bolsheviks (having in mind millions of murdered victims of these two devil regimes) may potentially ruin any chance for such a mutual dialogue.


Linas Johansonas Bartłomiej Kolubiński: what is there to discuss regarding Poland's occupation of Vilnius?


Boris Bakunas I agree with Linas. The border question has been settled by the terms of membership in the European Union. Unless I'm mistaken, each EU member state is forbidden from challenging the existing borders.


Bartłomiej Kolubiński Just to clarify, what I have not definitely wanted to say is that there is a room for discussion regarding post 1989 borders. Writing about “discussion”, I suggested only the dialogue between historians of our two countries. Do you really feel that putting Marshal Pilsudski (Lithuanian, Polish historical icon) next to Hitler and Stalin is the right thing?


Linas Johansonas i do not believe that Pilsudski is considered a "Lithuanian icon"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Pi%C5%82sudski


Bartłomiej Kolubiński He was born in Lithuania. He is Polish icon.


Linas Johansonas My uncle was born in Prague. Doesn't make him a Czech.


Bartłomiej Kolubiński ok, please cross out the word "Lithuanian" from my post


Linas Johansonas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_War


Boris Bakunas @Bartlomiej. Thank you for clarifying your statement. I agree that it is extremely important for Lithuanian, Polish, and all other historians interested in Central European history to collaborate, share their expertise, and discuss historical issues in a way that seeks to contribute to greater knowledge and understanding. And that means trying to avoid as much as possible individual biases and to comprehend others' points of view.

Also, I was surprised to learn that anyone would compare Pilsudski to Hitler and Stalin. But when I thought about all the extremist and emotionally-disturbed ultra-nationalists in the world, I realized it's not surprising at all.

Both individual and national identity are matters of: a) legal definition and b) arbitrary personal definition.

For example, legally a person is Lithuanian if he or she is a citizen of Lithuania, like I am. However, a person still has the right to identify himself or herself as Lithuanian without Lithuanian citizenship. That's an accepted practice among people of many nationalities here in the United States. 

Of course, that doesn't mean others are going to agree. But so what?

We can also (if we choose) create a hierarchy of national identities. For example, some people I know regard themselves as humans first, Christians second, Europeans third, and Lithuanians fourth.

I also know people with dual citizenship who maintain allegiance to two countries at the same time. 

National identity can be interpreted in different ways by different people. 

It's always a pleasure to be able to discuss something with a person who is tolerant, flexible, and non-dogmatic. 

Best Wishes!


Timotiejus Sevelis This is what "nationalism" creates. Discord amongst people. I'm an American citizen, 3rd generation Lithuanian-American, or as I prefer, an American of Lithuanian descent. Are the "Tarars who came to the area in the 15th century who fought with the indigenious Lithuanians who fought alongside them against the teutonic knights any less "Lithuanian?"


Timotiejus Sevelis The Lipka Tatars (also known as Belarusian Tatars, Lithuanian Tatars, Polish Tatars, Lipkowie, Lipcani or Muślimi) are a group of Turkic-speaking Tatars who originally settled in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania at the beginning of 14th century. The first settlers tried to preserve their shamanistic religion and sought asylum amongst the non-Christian Lithuanians.[1] Towards the end of the 14th century, another wave of Tatars - this time, Muslims, were invited into the Grand Duchy by Vytautas the Great. These Tatars first settled in Lithuania proper around Vilnius, Trakai, Hrodna and Kaunas [1] and later spread to other parts of the Grand Duchy that later became part of Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. These areas comprise present-day Lithuania, Belarus and Poland. From the very beginning of their settlement in Lithuania they were known as the Lipka Tatars. While maintaining their religion, they united their fate with that of the mainly Christian Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. From the Battle of Grunwald onwards the Lipka Tatar light cavalry regiments participated in every significant military campaign of Lithuania and Poland.

The Lipka Tatar origins can be traced back to the descendant states of the Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan - the White Horde, the Golden Horde, the Crimean Khanate and Kazan Khanate. They initially served as a noble military caste but later they became urban-dwellers known for their crafts, horses and gardening skills. Throughout centuries they resisted assimilation and kept their traditional lifestyle. While they remained very attached to their religions, over time however, they lost their original Tatar language and for the most part adopted Polish.[2] There are still small groups of Lipka Tatars living in today's Belarus, Lithuania and Poland, as well as their communities in United States.


Timotiejus Sevelis 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars
http://www.kresy.co.uk/lith_tatars.html


Timotiejus Sevelis http://rt.com/news/lithuania-polish-minority-language/ All I say is leave people alone to live their lives in PEACE. Isn't that what freedom is all about. What do we need, more forced marchs? Get across the border where you belong! That's ludicrio...See More


Boris Bakunas @Timotiejus Sevelis. I agree with everything you have said on this post. Let me just add one point. In America, we not only live in peace with people from all over the world, but our country has thrived because of the contributions that immigrants a...See More


Bartłomiej Kolubiński 

http://www.lublin.eu/Unia_Lubelska-1-672.html


Boris Bakunas @Bartlomiej Kolubinksi. I'm as sure as I can be that Linas was not making a comparison between Pilsudski and Hitler or Stalin. He was merely mentioning three occasions when Lithuania was occupied as perceived by most Lithuanians.

We have a tendency ...See More


Linas Johansonas for the record, i'm not the one that mentioned Pilsudksi in the same sentence with Hilter & Stalin on this thread.


Timotiejus Sevelis I always like to put names and faces to the people mentioned. Józef Klemens Piłsudski.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Pi%C5%82sudski


Timotiejus Sevelishttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Rossa-MATKA_I_SERCE_SYNA.jpg Grave of Piłsudski's mother in Vilnius, Lithuania. The huge black tombstone is inscribed: "Matka i serce syna"
("The mother and the heart of [her] son") and bears evocative lines from a poem by Słowacki.