Professor Irena Veisaite

An Interview of Irena Veisaite by Ellen Cassedy April 26, 2011

Irena, you are a Holocaust survivor and have long been involved in Holocaust education initiatives in Lithuania. What do people outside Lithuania need to know about intolerance inside Lithuania today?

Of course there are examples of intolerance in Lithuania. All over the world there is intolerance. But there are also many attempts to promote tolerance in Lithuania. You should not always see only the negative side. We must appreciate positive steps as well.  

What about the neo-Nazi march in Vilnius on March 11, independence day, and the swastika flags and anti-Semitic banner that appeared on Hitler’s birthday?

It is upsetting that this happened and that some young people joined that march. But it is also worth noting that both government and society at large reacted in protest against these incidents.

Lithuania’s foreign ministry and the Speaker of the Seimas, Dr. Irena Degutiene, reacted strongly against the anti-Semitic outbreaks on the day of Hitler's birthday. The reaction against the march on March 11 was not as strong and as far as I remember, it was mainly Kubilius who reacted.

There is always something growing. This makes me hopeful.

What is being done to promote tolerance in Lithuania, and what more should be done?

A great deal is being done. In a short interview it is impossible to mention everything. Just a few examples: When Lithuania declared its independence in 1990, there was almost nothing on this topic. Now we have about 60 books researching the terribly painful history of the end of Litvak history and culture in Lithuania. We have three books about the Roma Holocaust in the country. Our textbooks are changing toward openness and tolerance to Lithuania’s minorities, though they are not yet perfect. We’re educating our teachers, with the help of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.

We also have many very active Educational Centers all over the country which are teaching the history of the Holocaust. A wonderful, modern exhibition has opened in the Museum of Tolerance in Vilnius Our government has designated 2011 as the Year of Holocaust Remembrance in Lithuania. Many events, discussions, conferences on this painful issue are planned.

For young people all over the world, the Holocaust is so remote that they can barely imagine it could happen. But we all need to learn about the Holocaust, not only because of the terrible things that happened, but because we need to understand that every one of us could in certain circumstances become a perpetrator. Every day we see how people are manipulated, how people are infected with hatred. As the famous Polish-British sociologist Zygmunt Bauman has stated in his book, Modernity and the Holocaust," the Holocaust is not a specific Jewish problem; it is a problem of modern society as a whole.

When we speak about the Holocaust in Lithuania or other Eastern European countries to people who also experienced the Gulag, we can’t ignore their experience. If we want to work toward mutual understanding, we must not become rivals as to who’s a bigger victim , but respect any victim of mass murder.

You have spoken of the need for "intolerance of intolerance." Can you explain?

No doubt. we should be intolerant of intolerance whenever and wherever it occurs. And we have first of all to apply it to ourselves. We can’t tolerate corruption, coercion, violence, etc. We have to fight it, but never overstep the border of tolerance. People are brought up differently, they live in different cultures and traditions, they have different experiences and therefore they can have different opinions and feelings, which have to be tolerated.

What can people outside of Lithuania do to help promote tolerance in Lithuania?

People from outside Lithuania should be very careful about interfering. They can speak of their own experience, but when a person from outside any country comes to teach local people how to act, you have to know the local situation very well and find the right way to speak. You must have tact. You have to understand the education people received, and their experiences. Otherwise you will face unexpected consequences.

Only one little example. In February, I attended a conference in London called “No Simple Stories,” which brought together well-known historians from the US, Israel, Germany, England, and Lithuania. We examined Jewish-Lithuanian relations – the years of coexistence and the years of violence. It was wonderful, very open and very honest. But at the end came a professor from outside with two cameraman, who read a statement which insulted all participants, accusing them in hiding the truth about the Holocaust in Lithuania. Such declarations don’t help, they only create bad blood and make a fair dialogue impossible.

Professor Irena Veisaite was a founder of the Open Society Fund – Lithuania and is now ombudsman of the Open Society Institute. For the past 15 years, she has participated in Holocaust education initiatives in Lithuania. She has been honored by the Lithuanian government with the Gediminas Order. The Sugihara Foundation nominated her as the Person of Tolerance in 2002. She lives in Vilnius.

Ellen Cassedy traces her Jewish family roots to Rokiskis and Siauliai. Her book, "We Are Here: Memories of the Lithuanian Holocaust," will be published in March of 2012. She lives in Washington, D.C. Visit her website at www.ellencassedy.com.