Markas Zingeris
Photo: Džojos Barysaitės

Markas Zingeris interviewed by Diana Koval

Markas Zingeris - a well-known writer, poet, journalist and director of the Vilna Gaon Jewish State museum, in an interview by Vilnews, shared his thoughts on intolerance and anti-Semitism issues in today’s Lithuania.

Q. Anti-Semitic displays in modern-day Lithuania happen quite often. For example, last month someone hoisted up swastika flags on Tauro hill in Vilnius and hung a poster with anti-Semitic slogans near the Kaunas Jewish synagogue. Why do you think such events are happening now? Another question - whether the public or the government is too indifferent to such a phenomenon? The investigation of Petras Stankeras case was terminated due to lack of evidence. Doesn’t it show public aloofness?

M. Z. It shows the lack of determination among the lawyers, or lack of consensus on some really central issues. Personally, I think it is the serious gap in humanitarian education among members of the judiciary, politicians, journalists and the lack of in-depth understanding of history of the twentieth century. In general, it is the absence of common accepted views about the past in a society stuck in the crossroads between East and West, Past and the Future.

Holocaust was denied on the pages of the magazine “Veidas” and this is an offence by law. So somebody needs to take a responsibility and this is either the author of the article or the editors. Just stopping the case wouldn’t do.

Western societies have went to the present-day understanding of crimes of WWII, particularly the Holocaust, a long road, from the Eichmann trial in Jerusalem in the sixties and students revolt in Germany, when children started to put uneasy questions to their parents as to what the latter were doing and where they were serving during WW II. Meanwhile, the Communist regime here concealed the racist motives of Nazi crimes. Communists put the focus on the crimes against “Soviet people” or against people in general, but kept silent about the reasons of Hitler's anti-Semitism ideology. They have censored the works of art, such as Vasiliji Grossman’s epic novel “Life and Fate”: or Jevtushenko’s poem Babiji Yar. There were few exceptions, such as Icchokas Meras with his ghetto stories, but they could not replace the lack of systematic education of human rights and racism, and anti-Semitism. There were periods were anti-Semitism here was even endorsed by the State. So, people haven’t developed immunity to such phenomena.

Consequently, the older generation is unable to transmit the necessary knowledge to the young that educational institutions in the Western Europe have given to the modern day children. Our educational efforts in this direction are too recent and inconsequenial to affect the society on the grass-roots level. People mainly have a certain stereotypical understanding about the past and, also, fail to fully recognize what is happening in today's world.  

Our press is not of much use in this. In my perception, a lack of education and a wider perception beyond the ethnocentric view and lack of analytical understanding of twentieth century realities are the reasons why the wheat isn’t being separated from the chaff quite often among the general readers of the mainstream press and, even more, among the general electorate.

Neo-Nazis are selling themselves as patriots to the mass-audience; they misuse the term patriotism, plant ersatz values and spread seeds of hate.

Again, a remark about the dire political consequences of the decisions by the judiciary, recently the court in Klaipeda decided that the swastika is a symbol of the Balts so the public display of it must be legal. So, congrats, dear judges, it was raised over Tauro Hill in Vilnius in the white circle of the full-blown III Reich flags. Why not any other archaeological excavations have been chosen as an ancient symbol of the Balts, but swastika?

Yes, swastikas are common among the archaeological excavations, yes, it is the symbol of the sun, and Hitler also believed that. But let’s de-camouflage it. It is just rhetoric used by contemporary neo-Nazi organizers. Besides, it looks like their patrons are the mainstream party “tautininkai”. Quite often nor our legal institutions, nor our politicians and journalists are able to point out their demagoguery, to drag this camouflage of “patriotism” away, although our public intellectuals were not misled.

We may eventually develop a serious illness of society, as Russia has it, where neo-Nazis and extremists march in orderly columns on various occasions and, as we here, they often turn into violent gangs. We’ve had already had here an attack on a movie-theatre were an anti-fascist film was shown. Unfortunately, without effective response this phenomenon will deepen, expand and we may have some Neo-Nazis taking Parliament seats in due time. I would add that the reaction of the Jewish community was provincial and helpless, at best. Therefore, we have a whole series of events that constitute a favorable ground for such an aggressive phenomenon.

Q. Do you think that some state politicians probably weren’t responsive enough?

M. Z. The ruling party responded with a statement. And I think that the decision was difficult to make, because the ruling party is a cross-party alliance formation. Though the President’s initial reaction was rather vague, later she responded with more determination. So has responded the Prime Minister. In general, the ruling echelon was aware, and some politicians realize that this may be a serious development problem of our society. Somebody must diagnose this phenomenon, which is spreading and becoming more aggressive.  It seems to me, that delayed response to extremism encourages extremism. Historically, extremism grows when forces of mainstream or of opposing political camps stay fragmented and hesitant.

Q. Lithuania is a young country. Maybe it just needs more time to rise a new generation, guided by other values, and oriented towards the West?

M. Z. Thinking of it in the silence of my office, sure, that would be very nice. But life out there is different. Everything spreads and develops with the speed of light in the modern world – Arab revolutions, the economic crisis . . . There seems to be no sustainable development. The world evolves convulsively and it is difficult to forecast. 2 + 2 is not four, but, say, 9/11.

Q. In your opinion, what is needed for Lithuania to get on the right path?

M. Z.  All this rhetoric is discredited and it seems impossible to have a monopoly on truth, because as I have said the world is changing rapidly. However, there are certain values ​​that need to reach the minds and hearts of as many people as it is possible. Those values are moderation, openness to each other, to minorities and, of course, respect for human rights.

I’d value a belief that the embrace is a more fruitful position than is the self-defense boxing pose of the outdated worldview against the whole present-day world – the East and the West. These demonstrators on March 11 shouted: no to East, no to West. I would say, yes to East, and yes to West! It is better to take everything that is best from everywhere. But indeed a well-educated generation and wise politicians are necessary. And I’ll just share with you some pipe-dreams, if I start writing prescriptions, so I wouldn’t do that. I think what is urgently needed is the political maturity of Lithuania as well as a strong middle class. Unfortunately, these things do not come all-at-once.

Q. Do you have something to tell, that I possibly haven’t asked?

M. Z. It seems to me at this time, there should be announced a kind of State of emergency in education, which would wisely educate intolerance to intolerance. Writers, intellectuals also should regain lost positions in society. Indeed, intellect is completely undervalued in Lithuania. Society should have supported achievements of their intellectuals and future potential Nobel laureates, as enthusiastically as it is supporting its basketball players. In response, there could be a response in a shape of a counterdemonstration in the very center of Vilnius, which was conceded so proudly by Municipality clerks to the radicals on 11 March. A counterdemonstration with completely contrary slogans, wise and peaceful, and a much forceful demonstration at that - this should be an adequate response.